Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Well, hello there and welcome back to another episode of Just say Something's weekly podcast. Remember to like, share and subscribe and all that good stuff. I always get messed up with all that. But anyway, they know what to do, right?
Today, I wanted to introduce you to Susan Crooks.
And Susan is the founder, executive director, chief, bottle wash, everything regarding the organization of Waltz Waltz.
So this is.
I've known Susan for a while there, and I've been trying to get her on here for quite a while.
And our calendars have finally provided us the opportunity to meet.
So let's see, instead of me saying anything, welcome.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Yes, finally.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: And tell me, what is Walt's Waltz?
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Well, we.
Waltz. Waltz was started out of loss, and my son struggled with treatment resistant anxiety and depression for almost 20 years. You know, it could kind of come and go some, but it was mostly there.
And so our. He died by suicide August 22nd of 2019. And he was getting tired and I was the last one to see him. And some of his words were, mom, sometimes people just don't get better. And so part of our idea here was we must do better. We are doing very good and there is fabulous information out there. But it all started with my son, Will, just two days after losing his best friend. So I really call him a co founder as he initiated the movement. And he looked me in the eyes just two days after losing Walt because we knew how could I make it or how could he? And he said, mom, we're going to start a movement and if we save one life, it will be worth it. And that's how he started.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: And.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Anybody that knows you knows this is who Susan is.
This is what Sue Chickle next.
Um, I know every time I see you, I give you a hug and I love your passion and it's unfortunate that you had to do this, but you're helping those out there that may be struggling or they may have a family member. Yes, struggling.
Your background blends education, arts, and mindfulness.
So how have these disciplines shaped your approach to combating mental health stigma through Walt's Waltz?
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Well, they have everything to do with it. I'm a lifelong teacher and also a lifelong learner. And actually, my son and I, Walt, we taught together for almost 10 years.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: And so that's something as well.
And the way that all of this plays in is I taught visual arts, language arts, I've taught ged, parents as teachers. I've worked with the Department of Human Services. I've been in people's homes and taught them how to do their math, but also taught them how to play with their children and things like this.
I have a passion for helping people, even when I was in high school. For those that are in high school, I was president of a club called Teens who Care.
We did tea on wheels instead of Meals on Wheels, and we did puppet shows, traveling puppet shows. So all of my life, I've also enjoyed creating things. And so that's sort of like how everything started. I have a rich idea behind curriculum. I also understand as I've taught so many different grades, you know, with GED or, you know, as young as preschool.
So the idea is to have a good understanding of who we are as human beings and suffering as well, because we know that there's people out there suffering. And it's sort of like, how can we help make this change? So one of the things about Waltz Waltz is we do incorporate the visual and performing arts into much of what we do, and we feel as if this is important. And I learned so much about that as a title I teacher, being given the job of being a full arts teacher because there was a cut in funds. It was a time when there was no funding for the arts. They took them out of the schools. And so I would became the whole school art teacher. And I noticed how great it could feel to actually have this release if for myself and even for my students. I could see them thrive in a situation, release their emotions and things. So we felt as if this would be something really good as well, concerning just the mindfulness and things. This went along with our. My son Walt Nye's work with the foundation for Critical Thinking. So the idea behind that is this part of what we do is heavy research as well, to make sure everything we say is valuable and important.
And that is well researched. Because, you know, one thing that I've learned is, you know, we come to the table with our own bias and assumptions, you know, concerning mental health, because the majority of us haven't been educated in this. And it's out of nothing bad, right? You know, there's no ill intent. It's just I always say ignorance, and people don't like that term. But I am ignorant in many areas. I am a mom, a teacher who lost her son by suicide. I am not a mental health professional, you know, and I am learning. But the idea is that we all need to learn more. And that is where the education piece comes in, you know.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: And I know a lot of times we say parents don't know what they don't know.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Exactly. We don't. And I think we can really blame ourselves. And this is something I get cry out to the parents of the idea that, you know, genetics, epigenetics, things like this have roles as well. And oftentimes we're the first to blame ourselves for, for so many things. And also for the kids, say, hey, give your parent a break. You know, they're doing the best they can. We're all just learning here, you know, all of us.
And I think that when we can all work together and see the value that every single human being has here as well, it's important. I've seen kids struggling. I've seen students bullied. I have, you know, I've seen this stuff firsthand. And I know that what the power is of one friend, one friend, one nice word from somebody can make a huge difference. And we try to impart all this information.
What I've learned and almost going to be 65, I'll be 65 this year. So all these years trying to show we are all humans and it's okay to make mistakes.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Right. So I know one of the initiatives that you're doing as part of Waltz Waltz is the stigma free environment designation that you offer.
What did that milestone teach you about building institutional momentum and community change?
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Something I think that you'll find really interesting. Interesting as well. When we Greenville center for Creative Arts was our first stigma free environment.
And I was sitting outside of, outside of my therapy because I went to therapy, you know, because I was struggling after losing my son. And so I was sitting outside in the car and the, the executive director gave me a call and I was talking to her about our programs and we got on this topic about becoming back then we said zone but we changed to environment. And she like oh my gosh, this sounds like something we really to talk about. And then like I was in the car over an hour talking to her and I saw my therapist leaving to go home. He's looking at me, I'm like, it's okay. And we kept talking. And then on November 6, 2020 what became in the far they became our very first wild swallowed stigma free environment. And this was with the onset then of COVID and everything else. But we find that it's so important because there is so much stigma within the workplace or appeared stigma. People are so afraid to come forward and talk about their struggles. And it's, it's so important that a workplace makes what we say. It's a bold statement to stand with those with mental health conditions and view them as the same and tell your employees that you feel this way. And by, you know, signing the pledge and doing educational activities and things like this, it helps create an environment where people can feel safe saying hey, I've got a therapy appointment or they're not going to feel like they will not get advancements because all the studies show that when you help people, you know, get them help, you know, they do so much better. And, and there's so many misconceptions again because of without education we have what we think we know is right.
So.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Okay. And you know, I just.
We recently had an event at the mall and that was an opportunity for us to connect with the community in a way that we normally would not connect with people.
I know talking with one of our partners since then that everybody she came across, only one of them knew about 988 as a resource.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yes.
And that's frightening. Yeah, I mean we, we see again we assume things, you know, we assume everyone knows it. We're in the business, you know, we're in this field. We assume people know this number.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: And they don't. And so, you know, it's a call out again to the listeners. Hey, share this with anyone you can. And I think Phil, one thing that a lot of people don't know is, is that you can call 988 if you're not feeling like you're going to die by suicide. You are not in a complete crisis. In fact you're encouraged to because guess what? We want to avoid that where you're, you know, into, you know, you're doing really bad. I mean of course we want you to call them, but we want to get it to you before then to be proactive. If you're feeling absolutely, you're feeling really struggling, you feel like you have no one to talk to. These people are trained to talk.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: And even on our website and things underneath our and our self care tip pages that you know, we have all these materials that the stigma free environments post and pass out and share and it's self care tips so that there's all different types of organizations and things that are listed there as well so that you may not know like the Trevor or you want to contact somebody about that or you may just want to learn more. We say sometimes what's really great is to put these in restrooms, Phil, because guess why?
Because if you get bad news, if you're at work, you're at school, wherever you are, you could be out at a restaurant even something happens. Your boyfriend breaks up with you, you got a bad test, you had a hard review or something's happening with the family. Where do you go to if you're really ready to break down? You run to the restroom and I say, you know, you're on you, you're getting that toilet paper. You're kind of rubbing your eyes. Right. So we have what we call, they're called dialectic therapy techniques and they're simple things that most everybody knows. But we're, we really want to get these posters everywhere. Your stigma free environment or not. We've even sent them to New Jersey like all different places, like packages for them to pass out.
But the idea is that seeing this reminder to calm down, to take a breath and these other activities that you can do. Also if you scan the QR code then you, all of these different help sites, websites, maybe you don't feel you need, you, you don't need to call 988 or you don't want to or whatever. You can see text lines, all of this information right there. And something else that's really important that you may not realize, I mean, of course you realize is the more that we see stuff, the more we get used to it. So if we have these in every restrooms, after a while it's going to become common. It's like, oh yeah, I need. Because when I do things just like driving here, I was nervous and I don't even remember to breathe sometimes. And even I see it all the time. So having these little reminders to help ourselves are extremely important. And what better place than in restroom stalls?
[00:13:35] Speaker B: I say, you know, and I have a feeling that a lot of people that are listening to this didn't even have a clue.
You know, that makes perfect sense.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because we're human and we break down.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Right? Right.
So you have a three step framework of education equity and stigma and is central to Walt's waltz. Which of these pillars do you or have you seen shift or evolve the most significantly over the last five years?
[00:14:12] Speaker A: I would say, I would say that there is some shift in stigma, but I would say that some of it without education we can see some shift. But there can still be bias sometimes.
The problem is suicide rates are high, are, have been climbing. Okay. So we are talking about it more, which is fabulous. Right?
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: But there is still embedded stigma within cultures and every culture has stigma. We talk about it all the time. Because each person I speak to, in fact a new student from Berkeley who'll be Interning with us. He's Filipino and talked about their stigma in their communities. And what I try to let everybody know, is there a stigma in every single community?
It is sort of like in some ways, which I don't like to say it this way, but it is a unifier. There is stigma, there is suffering.
There are mental health conditions in all of us, and it's something that we could all wrap our hands around together instead of being so apart in things like this. Sometimes we're seeing. So I would say there is much more noise about stigma, but I say we have to have education, too, because we can have noise and things, but if we don't understand, it is like critical thinking. We have to have, you know, an understanding of really what it is and our own biases and assumptions because we have to question ourselves, you know, all the time and see, what am I assuming here?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: You know?
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: And then also just the education, which you're seeing some in the schools. So even your pro. I mean, I don't mean even, but your program.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Sorry, no, that's right.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: I mean to imply that. But your programs do that. You know, you are putting the word out.
And I think that this is really important. So it is out there way more. So I suppose I would say that.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Okay, okay. All right, cool. And see, I told you you didn't need any of your notes.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: The problem is I need a timer, because I will go. I can talk for, like, five hours straight.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: I know, I know.
So art is an integral part of your outreach from mental health workshops to exhibitions of mental health.
Moonshot. Can you talk a little bit about the creative expression and how that can transform how someone views mental health?
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Yes. Well, one thing is, I think that you have to understand that if I'm advertising something and it says just like a mental health education program, well, I might not get many.
See, you know, people in the seats.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: Right, right, right. Trust me. It's the same way with tobacco and alcohol and drugs.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: It's like, well, I know this is great. I should really do it. But then I say, this is what I say. Come to us. Come to us. We are. We are going to give you a free pan of 16 pan of nice paints, a cool backpack, you know, like with our logo on it, our mascot. And we're going to be doing painting. Painting. And we're going to be talking, and you're going to do all types of artistic expression. Well, that kind of gets people there, because that can be the first step of not, you know, of that. And also in art exhibits. Because who doesn't want to get to an art exhibit, right? It's, it's exciting. And then each piece of art makes you ponder and question, oh, what is this? Further intention, meaning and the artist being there to explain things. So it's a way to actually get people to interact and talk about mental health in a different way. Also, even strategies, like during our workshops we have things like we also do wellness workshops, which we just did the other day. But it's, it's, it's a strategy for, well, being so something. And we always start out, which is cute. We have the outline of our butterfly, our mascot, which is like kind of like a color sheet. And people will come to us and say, I can't paint. They're all nervous, I can't paint. And then I hold it up and go, really can't, Phyllis, you can't paint this. And then they all laugh and, and then the silence is broken. And also when you're talking about really tough topics, when I'm talking about actually doing the art itself, sometimes if you're doodling or you're painting, it can kind of help you to break through and make you feel a little more comfortable. Because it can be tough topics and even have a tiny distraction even though you're still listening, you know, it can kind of help you ease into it. And before you know it, we're all friends. And just like the other day, it's all adults and people are holding up their pictures going, look at what I painted. And this is what it means, you know, because we'll even paint like, what does anxiety look like to you? Or depression or you know, things like this, if you've ever felt them. And then on the opposite side, what's the strategy? So now we've taught a strategy and we like to give. The idea is we give everything a person needs to go home and practice. That is part of our work. We have self care kits. So, you know, watercolor paints, the mirrors, positive affirmations. And that's something we really do a good focus on in that and saying we give them a mirror. Even like say this in the mirror to yourself because it's a way to remind yourself that you're a good person or if you're struggling. Beta Theta PI is a well taught, stigma free environment. They wrote them for students because they're struggling too. And so we always have booths up there and when we have suicide awareness month and before exams, oftentimes because, you know, people get anxious, right? And then, you know, you can look in the mirror and say these things. So we feel like it's a great leader kind of to get people in. But it's also a conversation, you know, open up or.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah. An icebreaker, more or less.
So you talked about your logo earlier and so you brought with us, brought with you today this piece of artwork. So tell our listeners about about this and why this.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Okay, so when we started Waltz, Waltz, the one thing the waltz is because my son loved three quarter time. And I had written a poem to my brother about Walt Starlight Waltz because he was talked to him every week he lived out of town. But anyway, so Walt used to say to me, mom, do you hear it? 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. His nicknames were the Renaissance Man, St. Francis and the Gentle Giant. He was a highly sensitive person. And that's something I just have to say really quick that the idea behind it is, is that we are complicated human beings and we have to understand that there are many things in play when we are talking about mental health. Anxiety is on a continuum, depression is on a continuum. We may be highly sensitive, you know, 20% of the population are. Go to our website, you can find out all about these things. But the idea is that there isn't always just one thing, you know, but one thing can help, you know.
But we like to instruct about that. So he loved the walls. That was one of the things he loved.
He was very well read. He had taught a Clemson for a while to say of a better understanding of this gentle, beautiful human being. You know, in fact, a person painted the ninja Picasso, which is Nick Burns read my first piece and magazine. And he had never painted any type of portraits before. He was graffiti art. No, was a Brendan fellow, gcca. And he painted into it, he said, don't expect much. And he painted an eight foot by eight foot portrait of my son that was just on display at Camperdown Falls for six months.
It's been on display all different places as well. But the idea is that he felt called to paint him. And when I met him, he looked. He reminded me so much of Walt. And my son Will said, mom, you're gonna have to step out. I had to step out. It looks just like Walt. So this man painted an oil portrait in two and a half days of my son. Eight foot by eight. Had never done something like this before. So what I'm saying is, you know, back to this is whatever, back to this. But there is an entire story on our website. If you go under logo and then look under Mascot. Because this is perfectly imperfect, our butterfly. And the point of this, as you see, we color outside of the lines there. This is a semicolon, meaning to take a pause. It's the international symbol to take a pause. You can't really see it here, but in the original creation, it's a.
There was a little heart on one side.
The W's, Walt Waltz, meaning Walt Waltz. But also the communion, the conviction, the love of my boys, Walt and Will. So that's kind of like a little nod, a wink to them.
And it's this idea that we are all perfectly imperfect. Everyone wanted to change this over time. People would be like, even the designer, because he didn't have a stylist when he created it. He used his finger. And then he got a stylist and tried to make it perfect. And he was on our board. Best Weinbalt's really good friends from work. And it just didn't feel right, you know, because art has to feel. You can have a beautiful piece of art, but if it's not evoking an emotion right, then is it art? I mean, I'm not saying it's not. Maybe it's craft. You know, there's a debate on that. But anyway, so this is. Every single one of our Watts Walt stigma free environments gets one of these to hang. We put a plaque here for them so they can hang it in their establishment knowing that they are also a stigma free environment. And we also have like window clings and things for people to put around in their cars because they can feel as if they're an ambassador, they're someone who's helping us. And that's another thing that we're pushing is this idea, like a call to action. Like, hey, if you believe in what we're doing, help us. You know, there's little tiny things that you can do. I mean, we have our pins, which, you know, we wear everywhere, you know, and this sort of stuff. So that's what this is. And a local artist makes it. Everything we do is handmade. Just so you know, our pins are, you know, you name it. See, I'm talking.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: That's okay. That's okay. That's all right.
So being as involved as you are from beginning to end, because we've had several conversations and.
And you're at a point now where it's like, I need help. Yes, that, you know, it's been a. It's been a mom's crusade, but now it's time to expand a little bit. So I know you're moving toward that.
How do you sustain the emotional energy that it takes to continue this story.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Of waltz Waltz I I think that what happened with me is I worked seven days a week, you know, from the morning I get up, which normally wake up at 4 or 5 and then just pass out on the couch for a little bit with the drapes closed and then work again. And then last year I was at 180 in person events. Some were networking and things, but it was 180 where you're up and you're passing, you're talking and you're, you know who you are or whatever.
But then you crash, you know. And I warn everybody, you know, because you can get fatigued. I actually hit a wall of fatigue.
I just kept saying if I can get to the end of May or you know, this year 2025, because my son will have been gone six years, August 22 of 19.
But something that we need is help. And one thing too, it was a crusade of mom. But you have to understand we did not get anywhere without the help of all these people. Because every time I needed something even starting, we became a corporation. Which is if you don't know you do that some people might not realize that you become a corporation then a non profit. But the small South Carolina Small Business Development center and the law clinic helped us.
We became a corporation less than three weeks after we lost Walt. That's what I'm saying that we have been going, but these people show up every single time we need help. When I'm getting so tired, someone shows up. It is a matter of fact. And so really and truthfully it is not. It has been a mission of our community because our community continues to show up like we have 25 stigma free environments. Do you know how we got them? Mainly from people who were working at a booth or visited us and they were not the top level people and stuff that had to make these decisions. They believed in what we said and they went step after step after step and they got us to become a stigma free environment. They come up to me and say a woman from USC upstate, she said, tell me more about this. I'm going to make our university a wall towel stigma free environment. And she did.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: I mean, I'm saying this is the power that people have, which sometimes we don't know that we do. We think we are too young or we aren't in these positions, but you would be surprised. And this is how we really grew and this is why we're where we are and this is the why we're asking for a little extra help because we are getting bigger and bigger and.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. So you've talked about, you know, we've talked about the history, what you're doing. So if someone wants to get in touch with you or somebody want. What's one. What's your website, and what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Okay, so our website is just Walt W A L T S. So waltz without philosophy walls. W-A-L-T Z dot com. Like the dance. That's why it's three steps, you know, one, two, three. One, two, three. Mom, can you hear it? One, two, three. One, 2, 3.
My son's favorite.
Punk rock or, you know, could be classical.
So that is where you contact us. W A L T S W a l t z.com and you can also email. You can email me directly. Susan waltz.com or we. We have a few other sites. If you go to our website, you'll see volunteer opportunities and things like that as well, that you can contact us as well. But I. I'm just as happy for you to contact me because then I just see it.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
So what's the one big thing that Waltz Waltz needs today?
[00:29:11] Speaker A: We need your voices. We need you to stand up and say, we must do better. We are doing great, but we must do better. We need to get this information out to people. We need more funding in the area of genetics, epigenetics, neuroscience.
We actually are doing good and we want people to understand. Don't give up. There is so much information out there. A lot of people, as you said in the beginning, don't know the number. 988. Hey, just tell it to people. You know, hey, just say, hey. Do you know this number?
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: We have things like take your mental health temperature, check in on your friends. Somebody's not looking like they usually do. Attend one of our workshops. You know, give us a call, see if you want to help. Volunteer. We have tabling events, we have workshops. We have days where we make our pins. And that's something else we didn't talk about, but the idea of loneliness. You want to be part of an organization? Well, we. Everything we do is handmade. Okay? So our thank you cards, we paint them, you know, so if you want to join us, there's many different ways that you can help us. And please reach out to people that are struggling. If you are struggling, reach out to somebody. This is normal.
According to the CDC, 1 in 5 people that's 20% of people, youth and adults, have a mental health condition at any given time. So I always say, count in your room if you're in school. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Well, look, you know, out of a class of 30, how many is that? Do the math. And then. And. And 50% of people will have a diagnosable mental health condition in their lifetime. So what are we embarrassed about?
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: And that's according to cdc. What are we so embarrassed about, Phil? This is just normal. And we want to have normal conversations. Just like, you know, you hurt your leg or whatever, you know, you tell people, let's start talking about this stuff openly. And you be a person who does it. Take the stand.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: And you can call us for advice because sometimes it feels awkward, but, you know.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
Okay. Boy, you've given us a lot.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: No, no, you're. You're wonderful. I love it. I love it. I love it.
If there was one more thing that you would like for listeners to walk away with from this episode, what would that be?
[00:31:32] Speaker A: My son Walt was a beautiful human being.
He had such a big heart. I mean, and we lost him.
And if you know more and we can educate people better, this may be our hope. You know, education, equity. Be stigma free and stigma reduce suffering. Empower those that are struggling with a hope to save lives. The more that we can take action, the more that we can open up and talk to people. You may be the reason why someone lived. And if you ask anyone, they'll be like, oh, my gosh. You know, I've talked to people who have made it, so. Yes, please talk.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Just say something.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Just say something.
Oh, well, you know, we do run into each other often.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: We do.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: And always give you a big hug.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: And tell you that I love you and support you any way that I can.
And so just know that continues no matter what. Yeah. And hopefully one of our listeners who may be struggling.
We don't know, but hopefully they'll reach out.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Absolutely. 988, just give them a call.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: It can't hurt, you know.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: That's right. That's right.
And for all of our parents who are listening, if your child is in a school that has ID badges, 988 is on the back of that ID badge across the state of South Carolina.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Wonderful.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: So it's just another tidbit of information.
So with that, I'm gonna bring this to a close.
I appreciate you.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: I appreciate you as well. Thank you.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: And I appreciate you sharing our your story and know you're always welcome here, no matter what or no matter when.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Thanks a lot Phil.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Take care.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: Yep, you too.
And for you listening again, if this has touched you, please share it with your networks.
Please share it with your friends, your coworkers.
And if you would like to become a stigma free environment in your workplace, then go to Waltz Waltz.com and follow what they have on there and get in touch with Susan so you can hang one of these in your workplace.
And until next time, this is Philip Clark. Would just say something.
Thank you for listening and be on the lookout for our next episode. Thank you.
